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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 20 post(s)
Havegun Willtravel Mobile Alcohol Processing Units 71	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:51:00 - [1] - Quote Ughgh where to begin. First i read the other threads. I wanted to save Galente for last so that i'd be awed by some sweet rebalancing love. But instead I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt Rise that you don't have a hate on for Gal. The Navy Vex and Exeq changes are super sweet. You definitely had your game on for that. Perhaps since then you've had some bad dug up sheep head for Torrablot. Hype: As mentioned it had a ' very ' limited use before. Didn't fit with a single null fleet doctrine, was of limited utility in most low sec fights. Didn't pve very well. You've succeeded in making it worse however. It was slow, bulky, and 100% dependent on cap boosters before. Nothing has changed except, it's now gimped to fit the very cap boosters it needs to survive at the price of loosing a web or other critical mod. But wait you say ! It got a low slot You can fit a 1600 plate now . Exxxcept, we didnt give it any pg for that. Ohh ohhh you can put a resist on. And maybe be half as good as a Babbon with a resist bonus. Exxxcept , the Babbon has almost Six Thousand more base pg than a Hype. The only other bs with pg as crap as the Hype is the Rokh, which gets a RESIST bonus. And it uses ASB's which use cap boosters, but no cap. +25 Bandwidth, +75 drone bay, +1500-2000 Pg, Drop a high, put the mid back and keep the low. Adjust the dps bonus to fit. Get rid of the useless rep bonus and GIVE IT A HP BONUS ! Then it can tank in an equivalent manner to the Babbon with 1 less low.
Havegun Willtravel Mobile Alcohol Processing Units 71	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:05:00 - [2] - Quote Meathron - There was nothing wrong with it that a bit of pg and a hp buff wouln't fix. It didn't fit in very well with null fleets but at least it was usefull in low and for pve. Now I don't know. +1 mid makes it a big talos with a maybe not so crappy shield tank. -1 low definitely seems to gimp it for any kinda of armor applications. On a dual 1600 plate, mag stab + resists fit with neutrons, Maybe, you can drop the mag stab for a resist now and still deal equivalent damage while still tanking. Maybe. The drone bay nerf though ? On the race with undeniably THE worst optimal & falloff. I can perhaps choke down the 100 bandwidth , but 150 drone bay would keep it from coming back up like dead sheep head.
Havegun Willtravel Mobile Alcohol Processing Units 72	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:40:00 - [3] - Quote Domi - The least horribad of the proposed changes but still pretty crappy. Why da faq did the stupid Geddon get that epic super win buff and not the Domi. It'll be better with sentries. Umm who gives a crap ? You'll be able to sentry snipe ( maybe ). Umm ya, like a Nado or Naga . Algos - Vex Navy -> Domi. Drone MWD buff or gtfo. Buffing the Dominix to be better with sentries doesn't mean it wont suck with Ogre's or Zerks. Nerfing the entire top rack to buff just 1 drone is BS. Either buff the whole drone bay or try harder. Cause atm this sucks rocks. The only micro redeeming thing about any of this is that there is Noooo way in hell the Geddon goes to TQ the way it is. If it does why would anyone bother to fly a domi ? Kill it, eat it, bury it. DO NOT DIG IT UP AND EAT IT AGAIN.
Havegun Willtravel Mobile Alcohol Processing Units 73	Posted - 2013.04.08 23:24:00 - [4] - Quote Hi Rise, Have a good nights sleep and when you wake up we'll pretend this was a bad idea, I mean dream. Mega - Maybe it's not as bad as I think. Split slots are kinda like split weapons systems. They have a tendency to be mediocre, But, they can make things interesting and unpredictable. Drone bay nerf still sucks hard though. Hype - If, Big IF, you're gonna make this a brawler then it needs PG. ALOT. ATM it's almost the worst of the group. Rokh will fit dual asb's and neutrons no problem. I see nothing to suggest the Hype has been buffed enough to fit dual rep and Neutrons. ( And minus the second cap injector I don't think it can keep then running very long ). Could really use +50 drone bay for a disposable flight of web drones if we '' have to '' go that way . Still not sure it's gonna do much to fix a hull that needs a full rework. " Personally, I think the strength of the neut bonus is being overestimated somewhat. Its a very cool bonus, but I think the impact of the domi's added tracking and optimal will be similar in power level " No dude, 40 k large neuts with 35k+ bonused points are not being over estimated. Domi sucks. MWD bonus + who knows what to make anyone look at it's ugly ass again. Tracking and optimal aren't worth jack if Ogre's can't chase you down. And sorry, no sentry buff will make up for a useless bonus. Geddon will use sentries to. NN
Havegun Willtravel Mobile Alcohol Processing Units 73	Posted - 2013.04.09 00:02:00 - [5] - Quote Adriel Malakai wrote: [quote=Olaf4862] Using 4 Praetor EV-900s, you'd neut 100GJ less cap per 24s (heavy neut cycle time) than the neut. Add that to losing 200+dps to not having heavy drones (or 150+dps for mediums), and that the drones can be killed super easy, and this is a terrible idea. Neut drones are bad. Using 5 Praetro EV-900's you'd neut the same amount. And not use any of your own cap in the process. Neut drones are not a common choice, but they can work. They become reasonable choice in a 150 or 175 drone bay with 125 bandwidth <-- Hint Hint Rise.
Havegun Willtravel Mobile Alcohol Processing Units 74	Posted - 2013.04.09 15:43:00 - [6] - Quote Morning Rise, Thanks for keeping up with the feedback. Hopefully your revisions will be innovative. "As I said in the OP, we are in a tough spot with the active armor bonuses. We don't want to throw them out, they are fun to play when they work, and we have hopes that we will continue to bring them into viability with other changes. That said, in the mean time we don't want to overcorrect for their current position in the meta." A couple of things I would really like to get across. '' When they work '' - they don't really. That's why the hype is mostly unused and will continue to be. Also why the proph is X times more popular than the Myrm. "That said, in the mean time we don't want to overcorrect for their current position in the meta." This I really want an explanation to please. Dragoon -> Proph -> Geddon. When looking for ways to innovate new game play styles and freshen up the mix with variety there doesn't seem to be an issue with Amar. However, if you play Galente you're effectively being told that an old legacy bonus that's never really worked well, still doesn't work very well. but maybe will get better is being hung around your neck Do or Die. Ten years ago someone decided that Amar were armor tankers and gave them the two best bonus's you could ever ask for. Resists and Armor Hitpoints. Galente were also supposed to be armor tankers but someone seemed to think that DPS tanking with Blasters would make up for squishy tank. It hasn't in the least. Add to this the fact that Galente across the board have lower pg and cap with the worst optimal and fall off and it's not hard to figure out why they've failed to have an impact or gain the popular following that other races have. This is our chance to finally even things out but you're failing dismally to break the mold or forge a new direction. Instead we're being told that we're stuck with bad old legacy mechanics while other people move forward in new directions. This just isn't acceptable. Armor Hitpoints would differentiate us as a tank philosophy. It would probably still make us second place to resists But, we could fit fewer plates and at least be fast enough to apply our myopic dps in more situations. I don't want to be handcuffed to an old failed legacy anymore. I want innovation. I want to see solutions in action not promises that stuff that doesn't work might not be so bad later maybe. Tiericide was supposed to open the door to new things. Lets see them please.
Havegun Willtravel Mobile Alcohol Processing Units 86	Posted - 2013.04.09 22:58:00 - [7] - Quote Cold shower time. The Domi is never gonna be a Cat or Boot anything. Thanatos: 5/5/6 100k Base Targeting Range +50% Capital Shield & Armor Rep Range Archon: 5/4/7 92.5 Base Targeting Range +50% Capital Cap Trans & Armor Rep Range +5 Armor Resists Either/or: 2 Cap Trans, 2 Capital Armor Reps, Large Neut or Smart bomb. Replicate that using large mods on a Domi and what do you get ? Zero DPS. And, you're stuck with @ 60 k drone control range. And the base 70 k targeting range the Domi gets. Now try building one of these supposedly Uber Cat/Boot fits. You need to loose 2 highs for drone link augmentor's right off the bat. Then at least 1 if not 2 sensor boosters to even get 100-110 targeting range. With your 4 remaining highs you could waste them on dual cap trans and remote rep and basically get mediocre reps and overall crappy dps. So Cat/Boot remote rep fits are pointless. Every DDA you add to a Domi Trashes Your Tank ! You're infinitely slower than the Ishtar or Gila. Ishtar has t2 resists, Gila gets a resist bonus. Domi is not alot cheaper than an Ishtar atm. About the only reason to choose it atm is that it's a bit cheaper , And, it can fit large neuts and guns. However, it will do that less than half as well vs the geddon so why bother ? Under 40 k, Geddon hits you with drones, neuts and torps. 40-80k it can run a single drone augmentor and use cruise. Domi can ....... ? Not an eft wizard but unless you can get a full rack of 1400's on it, it's useless. When it was the Only BS drone boat it was versatile and dynamic. Now that it's the Galente Sniper Battle Ship it just sucks. And it doesn't need a +10% bonus to range to do it. Marlona could speak more knowledgeably, but IIRC NC used sentry Ishtars vs Goon's once. Not twice, just once. That should say Alot about how sentry sniping is gonna work as a doctrine or tactic.
Havegun Willtravel Mobile Alcohol Processing Units 86	Posted - 2013.04.10 00:06:00 - [8] - Quote Hi Rise, Here's an idea. How about giving the Domi the Geddons neut/nos bonus and giving the Geddon the drone optimal ? This works for 2 reasons. The Geddon can use cruise to hit at long range and the extra high for a Drone Aug. Close up, torps and drones. The Neut/Nos bonus would make the Domi a bit OP, Exxcept, it's got Alot less pg than the Geddon. There's no way it could fit a full rack of neuts and the cap injectors to perma them for very long. If anyone tried they'd DIAF because they'd have no tank. It would be nasty for sure, but with the reduced pg and cap you'd have to make serious trade off's between neuting power and tank. And this would fit well with the Domi's long reputation of being a close to mid range brawler.
Havegun Willtravel Mobile Alcohol Processing Units 86	Posted - 2013.04.10 02:20:00 - [9] - Quote Askulf Joringer / IceDe4d PS: PLS FIX ASTARTE !!! Please don't. ATM Damnation & Abso will get an AOE DD bonus and Astarte/Eos will get an optimal range bonus to Fireworks and Snowballs. Lets fix one disaster at a time before we get into another mk.
Havegun Willtravel Mobile Alcohol Processing Units 87	Posted - 2013.04.10 15:03:00 - [10] - Quote Good Morning Rise, Thank you and your team for keeping up with the wall of text we've been generating. I can appreciate that finding a balance between some of the diverse opinions and wants can be a very difficult task while still maintaining good game balance. Mega: Much improved. Retains it's classic role and features, and add's a touch of fresh flavor. This less radical rework should prove to be more widely accepted and utilized. Not sure it will replace Rokh's or Mael's in any fleet doctrine, but it now at least has the potential to hold it's own. In it's classic low sec Gunship role with logi support it seems better adapted than ever. +1 ( For anyone not 100% satisfied you still have the Navy Mega to tweak and they're not that much more expensive overall ) Hype: Alot better. If we have to get stuck with the rep bonus, this is a superior platform to do it with. The drone bay reblanacing seems very equitable considering the ship needs to live "In You're Face" to get it's job done. I can see where it has the potential to finally shine but I'm doubtful of it being OP simply because it doesn't have the pg to go wild with max gank & tank. As a dual rep Ion or tripple rep Electron platform it should remain equitable. Two things are Exxceptionaly important here though. Currently Hype's go for +200 mil, Domi's for @ 95. While much maligned ( justifiably ) the rep bonus can be hugely advantageous to new and low sp players for pve ( and vets to ). Far and away the best manner to guarantee we finally see this ship fielded in great numbers is to nerf the hell out of the build cost. Make it the equivalent of the entry level bs and pve'ers will love you and PvP'ers will find a use for it. Of significant importance is the one stat you actually don't list. Cargo Bay . Perhaps for the first time ever in the history of EvE, in particular in a Combat ship balancing thread, someone's asking for a cargo bay buff. There's just no argument to be had. If it's getting stuck with the active rep bonus then it needs cap boosters. Even with Navy 800's and a med secure container it's just barely viable for a short drive by shooting. I'm not expecting it to have Itty 5 type cargo but it needs +50 or 75 for sure. Otherwise expect a rather large Nos drone thread to begin in 3,2,1. Domi: Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe i don't '' Get It " with the optimal bonus. More than likely I'm still shocked that the Geddon got buffed the way it did. Either way, I can't see any purpose for this ship anymore. Not sure I'll train Amar BS 5, but i'll definitely have it at 4 for Odyssey. Maybe it will get better with Sentries. But that wont help if I'm using any of the two dozen other drones in the game. Ogre 2's and Zerks will still be stupid slow. Worse if the ship is now intended to be a mid to long range platform as opposed to it's more classic role of close to Very close range. Going from a Vex to an Algos you definitely notice the speed bonus at work. I've used an Omni or Drone Nav comp on the Domi a few times but never been impressed enough to keep it on for long. Perhaps now they'll start to shine but sorry, I'm hugely doubtful of that . ATM I'm just at a loss to see any reason to PvP a Domi instead of a Geddon. Thanks again for working with us on this.

Havegun Willtravel Mobile Alcohol Processing Units 89	Posted - 2013.04.12 14:30:00 - [11] - Quote Hi Rise & Team, Thanks for all your work to date. I can imagine you're busy dealing with fallout in other threads, so we probably wont hear from you till Monday. Have a fun weekend. Attack vs Combat: Changing from Tiers to Roles makes it a bit of an Apples or Oranges thing for me. IMO new Hype does everything it used to do but does it better now. New mega does everything it did before only better now. Domi still not sure. If it's that big a deal to some people, could we just go double Attack like Minmatar ? I'm more concerned with the stats and slots than the name, and atm I'm liking what I see. Hype: Better for PvE, people will find something useful to put in the high that will help. Much better for PvP, there will Always be some good reason for that high slot in a close range Blaster ship. Could probably fit rails in a fleet fight and be respectable, but still 2'nd place to a mega. If it does turn out to be a bit OP 100/175 on the drone bay wont have people screaming for your head, so you've got wiggle room there. Mega: Better for PvE. Better than ever as a close range Blaster platform. Highly viable as a fleet platform. Might not be perfect with T2 425's but that's what meta 4 and implants are for. Navy Megathron: Though I'd start lobbying early. Already has 8 lows so that bonus slot has to go somewhere. The 8-4-8 will be popular with some people but I'd like to X up for 7-5-8 100/150. Some people will shield tank it but most will dual web it which is a blaster boats dream ( while still leaving the Vindi King of the HIll ).
Havegun Willtravel Mobile Alcohol Processing Units 92	Posted - 2013.04.13 20:51:00 - [12] - Quote Crazy KSK wrote: [quote=Johnny Aideron] " the hype has the ehp of a combat bs and the speed on one the mega has the slot layout of one (an attack brawler needs its neut) and the domi has the speed and the fact it has to stay in the same spot to use its sentries . One very big difference. In 99% of circumstances where the Hype will be flown it will have 1 or 2 reps. Thus, a non-plated Hype will be as fast if not faster than any plated bs it wants to chase down and beat to death. it doesn't need the Attack designation to do the job. It just will. -1 gun and +1 low finally gives it the Pg to fit proper guns And tank. 8'th low on the Mega will let it do whatever you want it to. More DPS or better resists. Either way it will be fast enough to be effective. AND, we still have the Navy Mega rebal coming soon. Get ready to shake the dust off. We're useful again in 3,2,1.
Havegun Willtravel Mobile Alcohol Processing Units 93	Posted - 2013.04.14 15:38:00 - [13] - Quote Pattern Clarc wrote: I don't understand why any Megathron Blaster pilot wouldn't instantly switch to the Hyperion now. Clinging to it, and then complaining that it doesn't do exactly what you wanted it to do or what you now is silly. There are a few points to consider. First is cost, both pre and post Odyssey. ATM Hype's run 235+, Mega's 135'ish. Post Odyssey is a real guess. Given the current meta's propensity toward logi and buffer tanking the Mega will be more popular than ever. The new layout lets it do Everything, and do it pretty well overall. All things being equal, if the re-bal brings all the ships to market at @ 140 i'd predict Mega - Hype - Domi as the new order of things. The Mega will remain a 2 to 1 favorite due to it's flexibility and just the fact that it's X times more sexy. At the right price however the Hype will easily replace the Domi as Gal's pre-eminent PvE boat. The rep bonus by itself will make it worth it. Combined with the gun bonus and the new drone bay there's just no question. Hype is better for PvE ( possibly the best non-faction PvE ship atm ). As a PvP platform the new improved Hype does everything the current Mega does, and imo does it a bit better. It doesn't however do what the new improved Mega does, which is good balance. If you Absolutely have to have a neut on your mega start lobbying now for an 8-4-8 Navy with a bit of an LP nerf to make them more affordable. GL though. I'm 99% sure the 7-5-8 lobby is gonna beat you 5 v 1. Only big question right now is how much does the Hype come down in build costs to make it popular vs how much do the Mega and Domi go up to balance things.

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